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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 05:28 
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This I hope is a the finished rail culvert.
Attachment:
Culvert Rail-5.png
Culvert Rail-5.png [ 131.96 KiB | Viewed 295 times ]

It not designed for RV and ships to pass under it, but if anyone wish to do so it their problem.

Changing the abutments from the box look to a more realistic look of retaining wall and rocks/gravel sides.

I had a try making wooden planking where the wood is weathered.
Whatcha think? If like or se something I can change let me know.
Attachment:
Wood Plank Bridge-6.png
Wood Plank Bridge-6.png [ 5.22 KiB | Viewed 295 times ]


Since putting the game file over on other forum, I altered things a little in the coding.

My bridges now are:
Bridge 00 Wooden and Iron Plate Centre (Was 08)
Bridge 01 Wooden Trestle (Was 04)
Bridge 02 Steel Girder Bridge
Bridge 03 Wide Bridges
Bridge 04 Iron Plate Bridge (Was 01)
Bridge 05 Brick
Bridge 06 Stone Bridge (Will be re-bricked)
Bridge 07 Steel Pillar
Bridge 08 (under construction) (Was Wooden and Iron Plate Centre )
Bridge 09 (under construction) (Was Wooden and Steel Girder Centre .. been removed )
Bridge 0A Culverts
Bridge 0B (under construction)
Bridge 0C (under construction)
Bridge 0D (under construction)
Bridge 0E (under construction)
Bridge 0F (under construction)

The wooden and iron plate Bridges with the steel girder centre I hope to change as not like it much. Think it can be improved.

Bridge 08 hope to make it like the Cougal Bridge.
Attachment:
Cougal2.png
Cougal2.png [ 845.45 KiB | Viewed 295 times ]


Bridge 09 hope make another culvert/floodway type bridge.

Like to have a go at making a few wide rail bridges with Fake single sided platforms on them. Need to be 2 bridges with the platforms different sides and arrange them so they can go side by side and make also so platform can look like a Island Platform if like.

Here the game file .. it different to the one on other forum as bridge IDs been changed and one has been removed.

Cheers


Attachments:
australian_bridges.grf [275.33 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 06:30 
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GarryG wrote:
It not designed for RV and ships to pass under it, but if anyone wish to do so it their problem.

Be prepared to deal with constant bug reports. That is why I used objects.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 09:42 
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You really think there be bug reports?

Would that be because players not use them how it intended?

One thing I do like about the objects under bridges many bridges have the same decking, but different pylon types.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 13:28 
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GarryG wrote:
You really think there be bug reports?

Would that be because players not use them how it intended?
Not the players. The ships. The player sets orders for point A to point B. Then the pathfinder code takes over. We saw something similar when tall ships were first introduced to the game. Masts and mainsails plowing through bridge decks were all the rage. :x

Quote:
One thing I do like about the objects under bridges many bridges have the same decking, but different pylon types.
Now that is interesting. Something akin to my causeways and trestles designed to fit under my wood frame bridge?

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 13:53 
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Not the players. The ships. The player sets orders for point A to point B. Then the pathfinder code takes over. We saw something similar when tall ships were first introduced to the game. Masts and mainsails plowing through bridge decks were all the rage.


Not my fault the ship captains not know how to navigate :lol:

Maybe I make the centre span of these culverts a proper bridge section and players can arrange to navigate their ships under that section.

Quote:
Now that is interesting. Something akin to my causeways and trestles designed to fit under my wood frame bridge?


I seen photos of wooden bridges with different types of pylons. Some have the continuous trestle, some have wooden pylons with 4, 5 and 6 posts, seen some with brick or stone pylons.

And steel and Iron bridges also seen different pylons styles, so making on bridge with a default pylons and then make several different object pylons could turn a bridge into 3 or 4 types. Some pylons will suit under any bridge decking type.

I see you made your set up to 4 levels high .. that will suit most of the time, but I like those wooden trestles to he able to be higher like I seen in some photos and movies. Shame we can't do curved bridges.

These are some I worked on many moons ago when you first told be about the object idea .. and then I forgot about it till you reminded me recently.

Trouble with my mind it only remembers what it remembers and forgets everything else until something makes me remember again. Do you have that problem? Not sure if it from old age or from the brain damage I have.

Cheers pal


Attachments:
woodentrestle.png
woodentrestle.png [ 2.87 KiB | Viewed 293 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 16:34 
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Hmm ... What were we talking about? Old age memories make me wish I knew back then what I know about today.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2018, 06:14 
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Wooden you know it .. found some timber and made these wooden road bridges.
Attachment:
Wooden Road Bridges-3.png
Wooden Road Bridges-3.png [ 74.78 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]

Based on some wooden country bridges I seen in photos and in real.

I like the wooden bridges with the wooden girders as so old looking and countryish.

The Wooden Trestle bridges are the 1st, 3rd and last from left to right.

The others Wooden Bridges with the odd length being a Wooden Girder.

Just hope they be strong enough for heavy trucks.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2018, 04:15 
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If you didn't design them well they may have have the same fate :twisted: :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dl6O2JWW0AAjxep.jpg

... well it was not a matter of design. It is the stupidity of war :( :
https://twitter.com/qalaatalmudiq/status/1035422471841898496?s=21


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2018, 04:20 
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The game called Railway Tycoon .. when disasters turned on bridges could collapse .. wonder if we could do that in TTD too.

A collapsed bridge or a abandon bridge might go good as a object for the game. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2018, 08:01 
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Working on the bridge in Sydney at Central Station that crosses over Eddy Avenue.

It has 6 tracks going from the 8 platforms to the underground.

There are several bridges crossing Eddy Avenue. One with the 6 tracks, and some with tram tracks and roads. Hope to design them so match up with Sydney station I been building. (Hope finish one of these days).
Attachment:
Eddy Avenue Sydney.png
Eddy Avenue Sydney.png [ 6.11 KiB | Viewed 286 times ]

Like to make them wide too so can go side by side.
Attachment:
Eddy Avenue Sydney 2.png
Eddy Avenue Sydney 2.png [ 5.65 KiB | Viewed 286 times ]

With luck get them finished tomorrow.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2018, 08:08 
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Been bridging some more.

I think I finished the Sydney bridge as a wide version. But intend to make a narrow version too and make the road one like the tram bridge at Sydney Central.

The rail bridges:
Attachment:
Rail Bridges Sept 2.png
Rail Bridges Sept 2.png [ 332.46 KiB | Viewed 277 times ]


The road bridges:
Attachment:
Road Bridges Sept 2.png
Road Bridges Sept 2.png [ 238.32 KiB | Viewed 277 times ]


These bridges are:

Bottom Row left to right:
Brick Bridge
Steel Girder Bridge
Steel Pillar Bridge
Iron Plate Bridge
Stone Pylon Bridge

Top Row left to right:
Culverts
Wooden Bridge with Trestle centre
Wooden Trestle Bridge
Wide Bridges
Sydney Bridges

When I finish the narrow Sydney bridges hope start on the Cougal Bridge .. pic a few posts above.

Just thinking .. players see Sydney Bridge might think it the Harbour bridge (what we call the Coat Hanger) .. Maybe I should find another name for it .

Here the game so far.


Cheers all


Attachments:
australian_bridges.grf [309.32 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2018, 10:43 
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Here's Cougal.
Attachment:
Cougal Bridge.png
Cougal Bridge.png [ 48.63 KiB | Viewed 266 times ]

Designed as a high level bridge. When only 1 level high ships and tall vehicles seem to hit the steel plating below the railway lines. Clearance is only 4 pixels .. not 8 like most bridges.

Now to see what Road Bridge I could make to go with it.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2018, 02:21 
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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 00:31 
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Hi Garry,

Looking at your bridge topic in the other forum, the Harbor Bridge discussion seems to be getting a bit complicated.
I agree with your thoughts on keeping the bridge to two tile widths.
That is a beautiful bridge and when you do it, it will probably be the signature bridge for your set.
The challenge is the proportions. The overhead photo you posted gives the impression that it is somewhat long and narrow while in reality it is very long and rather wide, not to mention that the arch is quite tall.
So lets look at the coding limitations.
The arch doesn't have any repeatable sections which means you would be limited to 6 tiles long plus the two ramps. Focus on drawing a 6 tile arch with tiles 0 and 5 having those cool looking buttresses.
Get the arch right before focusing on the deck (road/rail).
One thing I noticed in your mock-up is the arch will have to be much darker. As it is, the details got lost in the background (the deck).
I'm looking forward to seeing your solution. The TT world will be impressed. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 00:57 
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The metal work to the bridge I done is 5 tiles long not including the abutments.

I see the bridge from TBRS can be 7 long includes the abutments

Was hoping the pylons could be part of the Abutments but the be hard to arrange for vehicles to go behind or through it.

You idea of 6 long does that include the abutments?

The arch will be darker when finished. In real it is grey.

Any way I got to go as have a bus to catch.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 01:08 
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GarryG wrote:
Was hoping the pylons could be part of the Abutments but the be hard to arrange for vehicles to go behind or through it.
It is not hard at all. It is impossible. ;)

Quote:
You idea of 6 long does that include the abutments?
Yes. The ramps are extra so you would have eight total length.

ramp+0+1+2+3+4+5+ramp

Quote:
The arch will be darker when finished. In real it is grey.
Darker grey than a road?

Quote:
Any way I got to go as have a bus to catch.
Best catch it from the back. If you catch it from the front it might hurt your hands. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 07:51 
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I home but just for an hour and have to go again.

Quote:
Darker grey than a road?


Will be making sure what ever grey I use can see everything and not blend in with the road.

The Google earth view shows the road a light grey .. so maybe I use North American Roads as the surface .. that way dark grey structure of the bridge should show out better.
Attachment:
Building Sydney harbour Bridge Road View.png
Building Sydney harbour Bridge Road View.png [ 305.58 KiB | Viewed 257 times ]

In the photo I numbered 1 to 6. As to fit all I want and as close to the real thing that basically what I would need. (Unless some one can think of another war for me).

If I can make it like to try and do the following.

1. Be Left side of Pylon, footpath and railway line.
2. Be right side of pylon, 2nd railway line, a bit of fake road.
3 and 4 be same.. These be roads with the shoulders of the road to look like other lanes.
5. Road and Left side of the pylon.
6. Road, right side of pylon and path way.

(If can design it this way Pylons could be the ramps (Abutments) and this will allow 0 to 5 to be the actual bridge).

How to make it with 3 IDs.

1st ID. Could be 1 and 5,

2nd ID. Be 2 and 5

3rd ID. Be 3 and 4 and maybe just be road or could allow for extra tracks.

If I do that idea .. Players using this bridge will need it to have both rail and road. Rail always to left and roads centre and right.

Quote:
Best catch it from the back. If you catch it from the front it might hurt your hands.


Catching a bus from the front be once in a life time experience. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 13:21 
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GarryG wrote:
Darker grey than a road?

Will be making sure what ever grey I use can see everything and not blend in with the road.

The Google earth view shows the road a light grey .. so maybe I use North American Roads as the surface .. that way dark grey structure of the bridge should show out better.

In the RGB colour scheme, black is just the darkest shade of grey and white is the lightest. The TTD DOS palette gives you a lot of shades of greys to play with.

TTD Graphical Strategy Notes:
A major factor in the success of Transport Tycoon was it's unique graphical renditions.
Most of the features (buildings, roads, rails, etc.) are based on their real life counterparts.
Due to the small sizes of the game's features, sacrifices had to be made in the accuracy of the drawings.
The important thing is to capture the spirit of the feature you want to draw, but it does not have to be 100% accurate.
A good example is in my current contest submission. The modern office tower is Place Ville Marie in Montréal. That was where I had my first real job. The real PVM has 45 stories. I had to reduce it to about 20 so as to make it blend in. Notice how the height of my version is in line with the other tall buildings around it.

Some points I noticed in your photo:
The road completely fills the width of the superstructure.
The buttresses lie outside the width of the superstructure.
The buttresses are symmetrical and are exactly the same left or right.
The arch begins where the buttresses end.

Conclusion:
You only need one ID for the buttresses. That one ID will cover road or rail.
You will still need two IDs for 4 lanes of road or two lines of rail under the arch. With each of those two IDs providing road or rail. The player will have lots of flexibility.
My personal preference would be only one ID providing one road or one rail, but try the 2 IDs first to see how it looks.

Now the length issue ...
Stop thinking about the buttresses being on the ramps. Its impossible. Don't waste your time.
Instead, draw the buttresses to occupy half a tile on the ramp side. (Tiles 0 and 5)
For the arch, have it land on tiles 0 and 5 on the half away from the ramps.
That way, it will align with the ends of the buttresses exactly as in the photo.
Avoid the fake stuff as much as possible. You don't have room for that.
Get the arch to your liking first. The arch sets the spirit. Everything else is just an add on.
Attachment:
Harbour Bridge.png
Harbour Bridge.png [ 4.32 KiB | Viewed 255 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 13:26 
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Bridges arent really my thing, so I dont want to get too involved in this discussion, but I do want to mention that the top/roof of the arch has X-beams, that are (for me at least) a distinguished part of the design (and beauty) of the bridge.
These X-beams will make it rather difficult though to make the bridge modular regarding width….
Just something to keep in mind...


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Bridges
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 14:09 
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Quote:
Wallyweb

I will give the DOS palette a go. Normally use the Windows one as keep forgetting the DOS one has better colour settings.

Hope tomorrow have more time to do some draft ideas of the bridge and see what different ideas look.

I measure the distance across the bridge. Each pylon is 14 meters wide and between the pylons is 26 meters. Actual width of bridge itself is 50 meters so pylons stick out each side by 2 meters.

Buttress on ramps will be as said impossible but was looking at all avenues to be sure.

I will work on your idea of tiles 0 and 5 to be half pylon and half arch.

Quote:
Quast65


as you said the X-beams across the top will make it look strange for a wide bridge.

I too think the final design will be only 1 track and 1 road.

But worth looking at other ideas too.

Before I build the Opera House I better take singing lessons first.

Do we want Kings Cross too .. that where all the strip clubs. The other famous place is Bondi Beach. The beach Objects already available .. it just missing the topless girls on the beach.

Maybe I need to visit Sydney soon and get some photos and see how some things are. :mrgreen:

Hope to have a few more goes at ideas tomorrow after I had my beauty sleep and mind is fresher.

Good night .. sweet dreams.

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