Author |
Message |
SAC
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 19:54 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
Since I've never played OTTD I was wondering if I can safely start working on a scenario for future use, (i.e. once some features are implemented ), and keep adding the latest nightlies without those having an impact on the scenario itself, (while still being work in progress that is, and not started as a regular game)?
_________________ Simuscape - A world of its own;SimuTalk | Visual Studio | INFRA DiaryINFRA - Chose Your Destination;INFRA Projects | INFRA Downloads
|
|
Top |
|
|
SlemFreak
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 20:11 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 01 May 2012, 11:38 Posts: 580
|
Sure, I can't see that it would be any problems.
_________________ SimuscapeSite Admin & Developer
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 20:16 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
|
Top |
|
|
SlemFreak
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 20:27 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 01 May 2012, 11:38 Posts: 580
|
Knowing you and having seen Innovatia, you won't settle for "okej".. Innovatia in OTTD has to be perfect so I guess it will a long time
_________________ SimuscapeSite Admin & Developer
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 20:31 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
|
Top |
|
|
OzTrans
|
Posted: 06 Jan 2013, 23:40 |
|
Player |
|
Joined: 12 Mar 2012, 02:39 Posts: 469
|
You need to be careful about that. Creating a scenario in OpenTTD with a number of GRFs in use during the scenario creation session can cause serious problems, if those very same GRFs are not being used while playing the game. Even replacing these GRFs with updates can have an impact.
I've tried to create a scenario with Canadian v1.x GRFs, then playing the game with v2.x GRFs resulted in an unplayable situation.
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 00:13 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
Okey, I see your point. Is it possible to load the scenario editor and start terraforming a new scenario without adding any newgrf's at all until it's time to launch the game?
_________________ Simuscape - A world of its own;SimuTalk | Visual Studio | INFRA DiaryINFRA - Chose Your Destination;INFRA Projects | INFRA Downloads
|
|
Top |
|
|
OzTrans
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 00:18 |
|
Player |
|
Joined: 12 Mar 2012, 02:39 Posts: 469
|
SAC wrote: Okey, I see your point. Is it possible to load the scenario editor and start terraforming a new scenario without adding any newgrf's at all until it's time to launch the game? That should work of course.
|
|
Top |
|
|
wallyweb
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 00:21 |
|
Master Mentor |
|
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 22:45 Posts: 1880 Location: Canada
|
SAC wrote: Is it possible to load the scenario editor and start terraforming a new scenario without adding any newgrf's at all until it's time to launch the game? I think the game will complain if there are no towns, but it should allow you to continue. There might be some things not buildable without towns though.
_________________ Visit SimuSchool - Tutorials, Questions and AnswersTTDPatch Nightlies Downloads are backThrive
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 00:37 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
wallyweb wrote: I think the game will complain if there are no towns, but it should allow you to continue. There might be some things not buildable without towns though. I think you misunderstood me... I'm thinking of installing OTTD and then launch the scenario editor and start terraforming the terrain, adding cities and such, but not adding any newgrf's until I'm ready to start playing the scenario in OTTD - which won't happen until "you know what" is implemented in "you know what...
_________________ Simuscape - A world of its own;SimuTalk | Visual Studio | INFRA DiaryINFRA - Chose Your Destination;INFRA Projects | INFRA Downloads
|
|
Top |
|
|
wallyweb
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 00:46 |
|
Master Mentor |
|
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 22:45 Posts: 1880 Location: Canada
|
SAC wrote: I'm thinking of installing OTTD and then launch the scenario editor and start terraforming the terrain, adding cities and such, but not adding any newgrf's until I'm ready to start playing the scenario in OTTD That will work. I often do this even with TTDP. Quote: - which won't happen until "you know what" is implemented in "you know what... "I know what"
_________________ Visit SimuSchool - Tutorials, Questions and AnswersTTDPatch Nightlies Downloads are backThrive
|
|
Top |
|
|
OzTrans
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 01:06 |
|
Player |
|
Joined: 12 Mar 2012, 02:39 Posts: 469
|
wallyweb wrote: SAC wrote: Is it possible to load the scenario editor and start terraforming a new scenario without adding any newgrf's at all until it's time to launch the game? I think the game will complain if there are no towns, but it should allow you to continue. There might be some things not buildable without towns though. Towns should be added in the scenario, but you'll get the default buildings. These will then be replaced gradually with buildings from a buildings set when such GRF is added before playing the scenario.
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 01:32 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
|
Top |
|
|
Nite Owl
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 08:58 |
|
Lurker |
|
|
Joined: 08 Apr 2012, 04:48 Posts: 13 Location: In The Dark
|
The adding of NewGrfs after a scenario has been created can be done but it can also cause problems that may result in a loss of playability. A scenario is seen by OpenTTD in the exact same way as a save game is. What you can safely do is edit the terrain as much as you like and then export that terrain as a heightmap. Terrain being defined here as anything that does NOT involve NewGrfs; no towns, no tracks, no roads, no trees, etc. I am not sure if rivers translate to heightmaps as yet. When you have all your NewGrf's finished (or OpenTTD is "upgraded" to a playing style that you find useful) you can then import that heightmap into the scenario editor at the same time that you put your NewGrfs in place and then continue to edit your scenario from that point.
_________________ Humor is the second most subjective thing on the planet -------------------------------------------------- Brevity is the soul of wit and obscenity is its downfall -------------------------------------------------- Good Night And Good Luck - Read You Soon
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 10:36 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
Ah okey! There certainly are some differences between TTDP and OTTD also when it comes to the scenario editor, so many thanks Nite Owl for this information...
_________________ Simuscape - A world of its own;SimuTalk | Visual Studio | INFRA DiaryINFRA - Chose Your Destination;INFRA Projects | INFRA Downloads
|
|
Top |
|
|
wallyweb
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 13:47 |
|
Master Mentor |
|
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 22:45 Posts: 1880 Location: Canada
|
There should not be a problem with adding GRFs to a scenario in either TTDP or OTTD as long as the added GRFs do not conflict with previously added GRFs.
The real problem arises when one removes a GRF. There can be obscure artifacts remaining on the map.
In both games, features such as industries will persist behind the scenes even if the GRF is removed. TTDP has cheats that allow purging of certain features. As far as I know, OTTD does not.
The best approach is to develop a strategy for scenario building: - Sequentially number your scenario saves as you add features: xx0 - Plain terrain - no features xx1 - Town set added - Towns built xx2 - Industries added - Industries built xxetc - Continue pattern for each added feature This way, if a change is required, you can always restart the process from the previously saved scenario.
_________________ Visit SimuSchool - Tutorials, Questions and AnswersTTDPatch Nightlies Downloads are backThrive
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 13:58 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
|
Top |
|
|
michi_cc
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 14:04 |
|
OpenTTD Developer |
|
Joined: 30 Jul 2012, 17:29 Posts: 11
|
SAC wrote: Ah okey! There certainly are some differences between TTDP and OTTD also when it comes to the scenario editor, so many thanks Nite Owl for this information... TTDPatch might not complain or show any messages, but that doesn't mean it magically always work. Generally, not all NewGRFs are equally problematic. OpenTTD disallows modifications by default because it's not easy to which changes are "safe" and which are not. A big problem in that regard is that NewGRFs can change their behavior depending on which other GRFs are present and their parameters, up to disabling themselves. Except for that adding new vehicles, stations, objects or houses is mostly safe. Removing can be safe too, especially if they aren't used anywhere. GRFs that only replace sprites (e.g. Stolen Trees) are unproblematic as well. What will likely trip you are GRFs that add, remove or modify cargos, which includes most industry sets. Not that surprising if you know that almost everything in the game except NewObjects interacts with cargos one way or the other. Changes can result in behavior like wrong prices or even undefined cargos unless you are very lucky.
|
|
Top |
|
|
SAC
|
Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 18:57 |
|
Simuscape Admin |
|
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 09:25 Posts: 3033 Location: Sweden
|
|
Top |
|
|
metalangel
|
Posted: 08 Jan 2013, 04:55 |
|
Lurker |
|
|
Joined: 17 Dec 2012, 08:05 Posts: 9 Location: Toronto
|
Just to add a recent experience I had - a lovely map was generated for me by OpenTTD and I began playing only to discover that water supplies weren't working (a big problem in a tropical map) plus a number of industries were producing the wrong things, things that shouldn't be present in a tropical game. While it was nice to have all that coal and steel, it spoiled my game a bit and I had to fix it and restart.
The culprit was a missing NewGRF for ECS when the map had generated. Saving as a scenario and tweaking it had no effect.
_________________ "(Locomotion is) one of the best-playing games of its type." -Chris Sawyer
|
|
Top |
|
|