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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 21:24 
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With the first edition of Innovatia - and the diary following the development of the scenario - it's time for the 2nd and final edition of Innovatia based on the patch, TTDP. The next time I put my efforts into a new scenario will most likely be based on OTTD, as I expect this movement to have proceeded with most of the desired features by that time... :twisted:

Anyway, again might I add;

Welcome to the birth of a new region! - Feb 12

The new map of Innovatia is actually based pretty much on the same scenario as the previous one in October 2005. However, the approach this time is a bit different. At that time all we had access to was the original TTDLX graphics without any NewObjects Features or something else - apart from the patch itself and the modifications it brought into the game. So in other words, the map is already done - but without any cities placed with the exception of the capitol-to-be; the city of Olympia. And as can tell not a single Innovatian has discovered this beautiful land yet... :P

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 00:54 
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i hate OTTD for still not having custom bridgeheads, they are the only main issue i have with it, although i do prefer current OTTD over TTDP for the simple reason of me hating the patching process alot

cant wait to see innovatia arise again, maybe a more balanced industrial setup this time rather then just putting them all on a straight line?


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 01:00 
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Well, in fact... hmmm, I'm actually thinking of putting this on halt and instead have a go at Innovatia v2. using OTTD!

:shock:

Yes, can hardly believe myself, but there's a patch out there allowing for CBH with OTTD, and while not official and while not adapted by OTTD devs, it may at least give me what I need in terms of an important feature. And hopefully at one point it'll be a stable part of OTTD! :)

But I haven't decided yet...

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 02:59 
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I will say though, if you start making a scenario with the patch applied, it will no longer be compatible with trunk, even if that patch hits said trunk.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 03:09 
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Oh... :shock:

That's some bad news! Well, in that case I have no choice but to continue using TTDP. I'm afraid I will not put a lot of efforts into a huge Innovatia scenario using OTTD, only to find that later on it will be useless.

Thanks for the information Leanden! :)

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 09:10 
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However, if you start in Openttd, and then it gets implemented, you can use it.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 09:15 
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SAC wrote:
Well, in fact... hmmm, I'm actually thinking of putting this on halt and instead have a go at Innovatia v2. using OTTD!

:shock:

Yes, can hardly believe myself, but there's a patch out there allowing for CBH with OTTD, and while not official and while not adapted by OTTD devs, it may at least give me what I need in terms of an important feature. And hopefully at one point it'll be a stable part of OTTD! :)

But I haven't decided yet...



if you have a nightly build and can confirm it works then DO post it on the OTTD forums, i cincerely hope we can get that working, its a real pain for me that i lack CBH while doing cityscaping in ottd....

having said that, i still can achieve some pretty "ok" results, an alternative hacky implementation is to just draw a bridge that has CBH endings (always have it)

also last time innovatia's landscape was formed along with the city etc development. i always find it harder to build cities in an existing landscape then creating the landscape along with my imagination. do you not hate the landscape limitations, or do they form a challenge to you SAC?


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 09:31 
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leanden wrote:
However, if you start in Openttd, and then it gets implemented, you can use it.


The thing is, while not an issue in the countryside itself, I'm bound to reach a halt when it comes to my cities. Most certainly. The way I tend to build up my cities requires CBH as I need to use every single tile carefully, and not let any of them go to waste. CBH do provide an important advantage, hence the fact that I'm one of the - perhaps few - remaining TTDP players out there. :P

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if you have a nightly build and can confirm it works then DO post it on the OTTD forums, i cincerely hope we can get that working, its a real pain for me that i lack CBH while doing cityscaping in ottd....


I got the impression from people using OTTD along with the CBH-patch that it does in fact work, although with some glitches where the bridge heads ends. Getting rid of the glitches should work - at least partially - by removing some fields from the foundation sprites.

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also last time innovatia's landscape was formed along with the city etc development. i always find it harder to build cities in an existing landscape then creating the landscape along with my imagination. do you not hate the landscape limitations, or do they form a challenge to you SAC?


I prefer creating the landscape along with my imagination, and for this 2nd version of Innovatia I'm also trying a different direction by developing my cities one by one. Should be interesting... :P

As for limitations, yes I wouldn't mind having more options there, but it's true, the existing landscape limitations do form a challenge - especially on the only map size available in TTDP where each and every single tile is important.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 15:37 
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SAC wrote:
leanden wrote:
However, if you start in Openttd, and then it gets implemented, you can use it.


The thing is, while not an issue in the countryside itself, I'm bound to reach a halt when it comes to my cities. Most certainly. The way I tend to build up my cities requires CBH as I need to use every single tile carefully, and not let any of them go to waste. CBH do provide an important advantage, hence the fact that I'm one of the - perhaps few - remaining TTDP players out there. :P

Quote:
if you have a nightly build and can confirm it works then DO post it on the OTTD forums, i cincerely hope we can get that working, its a real pain for me that i lack CBH while doing cityscaping in ottd....


I got the impression from people using OTTD along with the CBH-patch that it does in fact work, although with some glitches where the bridge heads ends. Getting rid of the glitches should work - at least partially - by removing some fields from the foundation sprites.

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also last time innovatia's landscape was formed along with the city etc development. i always find it harder to build cities in an existing landscape then creating the landscape along with my imagination. do you not hate the landscape limitations, or do they form a challenge to you SAC?


I prefer creating the landscape along with my imagination, and for this 2nd version of Innovatia I'm also trying a different direction by developing my cities one by one. Should be interesting... :P

As for limitations, yes I wouldn't mind having more options there, but it's true, the existing landscape limitations do form a challenge - especially on the only map size available in TTDP where each and every single tile is important.



i can tell you that even on OTTD bigger maps and cities dont always look alot better, as it is harder to make something very detailed or look good as when you have a smaller area. CBH are the biggest lacking feature for me, i curse my OTTD every day for the lack of it as it is the CBH that can make a city look way better (more crowded)


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 15:48 
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... i curse my OTTD every day for the lack of it as it is the CBH that can make a city look way better (more crowded)


And that certainly encouraged me to move on to OTTD... :lol:

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 16:12 
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SAC wrote:
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... i curse my OTTD every day for the lack of it as it is the CBH that can make a city look way better (more crowded)


And that certainly encouraged me to move on to OTTD... :lol:


we just need a dev who is willing to port CBH properly so it can be added to trunk at any given point
i might actually start my own World of XXXX build later, if only i can find my old works...

what mapsize do you usually use?
512? 256?


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 18:12 
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Since it's TTDP I'm playing on 256x256!

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012, 22:12 
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ill give the 512x512 a shot later then, cant find the old files, i did stumble across an old save of a network game with romazoon on cincinidi map, not bad final network, but not as mindblowing as innovatia, so i might try to get some time for this later

EDIT: willt ake a while, im checking out
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 0&start=20

that CBH stuff, looks promising at least, hoping that official tt devs will sneak peak in and maybe help out a bit


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 01:59 
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Well, you can always start your own screenshot/diary thread here... :)

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 14:06 
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SAC wrote:
Well, you can always start your own screenshot/diary thread here... :)


yeah will do as soon as another feature becomes available in OTTD --> manual house/building placement (your control+stone thing pops a building if im not mistaken in TTDP, i cant get something like that to work yet, but i will start a thread when i get myself going


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 14:30 
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I am interested SAC, without a citybuilder patch being implemented thus far, how do you so precisely control the placement of city buildings which aren't newobjects?


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 15:14 
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leanden wrote:
I am interested SAC, without a citybuilder patch being implemented thus far, how do you so precisely control the placement of city buildings which aren't newobjects?


Actually with the help of roads, rails, station tiles and newobjects. It's a shame it's not possible to be able to click a tile and have a list pop up with available buildings to choose from though. That would have been the ultimate for me since I love developing cities.

Another important thing to control the way you want your cities to grow and appear, is to focus a lot on terraforming. I'm currently re-installing my previous Innovatia-thread that I had over at TT-forums, and it's quite interesting to follow the development dunring the years. And especially Vasa, later on re-named Olympia, is a peace on its own. To see how it first appeared once the map was completed in terms of the landscape process, and how it eventually turned out at the final stage.

It's a complicated and complex city as I have modified it on soo many occassions these last couple of years, and due to its size, its terraforming structure, roads, highways, railroads, well you name it, it's almost impossible to have a good overall grip of everything. At times I have no idea where roads are going, and I have to use the transparency tool to actually find out. But that's what makes it soo realistic to look at. :mrgreen:

Should be interesting to see what can be done with v2. After all, following v1. from the beginning, we didn't even have access to New Objects - not to mention very few custom graphics at all. :)

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012, 22:02 
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SAC wrote:
leanden wrote:
I am interested SAC, without a citybuilder patch being implemented thus far, how do you so precisely control the placement of city buildings which aren't newobjects?


Actually with the help of roads, rails, station tiles and newobjects. It's a shame it's not possible to be able to click a tile and have a list pop up with available buildings to choose from though. That would have been the ultimate for me since I love developing cities.

Another important thing to control the way you want your cities to grow and appear, is to focus a lot on terraforming. I'm currently re-installing my previous Innovatia-thread that I had over at TT-forums, and it's quite interesting to follow the development dunring the years. And especially Vasa, later on re-named Olympia, is a peace on its own. To see how it first appeared once the map was completed in terms of the landscape process, and how it eventually turned out at the final stage.

It's a complicated and complex city as I have modified it on soo many occassions these last couple of years, and due to its size, its terraforming structure, roads, highways, railroads, well you name it, it's almost impossible to have a good overall grip of everything. At times I have no idea where roads are going, and I have to use the transparency tool to actually find out. But that's what makes it soo realistic to look at. :mrgreen:

Should be interesting to see what can be done with v2. After all, following v1. from the beginning, we didn't even have access to New Objects - not to mention very few custom graphics at all. :)



http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=48851

soon you WILL have tha powah to click and select.... (well i hope someone will add more features, i just updated the patch to todays head revision)


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2012, 15:11 
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Yes, I noticed that too. But that's mainly about having the same ability as with the patch. I was perhaps thinking of an in-game mechanism where you could click a town tile and a new window opens up, giving you some options of what to have built on that particular tile/s. In addition, buildings placed like that must remain un-touched by the game for as long as it stands there, (i.e. destroyed by the player)... :P

On a side note, there's a delay with this new diary as lots of work has been - and still is - put into the upcoming release of INFRA eye candy, amongst other graphics work... :) But it'll be updates also here eventually...

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