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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2017, 17:20 
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Can't concentrate of coding at moment, but can play around a bit with drawings and finding ideas.

Keep your health in mind buddy, that is the most important thing...
This wont run away ;-)

Two things I would like you to know about though:

* A suggestion over at the TT-forums:
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=21706&p=1189503#p1189389
Quote:
I'm searching for one more thing:
buffer stops / End of Rail-signs or the like as NewObjects

I think that is not a bad idea to provide some single buffers as object-tiles. I will try this out with the Dutch-set. If this works ok and if you woud like this too, then I will provide you with a single-tile object template in NFO. That can be included in the station-GRF, but will ofcourse show up in the Object-purchase menu.





* The other thing is that I have been thinking about Sydney station and more importantly its design to encorporate that tramline that goes under the roof in front of the station.

A rough explanation:
- Provide the main buildings as stand-alone units/blocks (so everything that is on platformlevel so to say). Drawn in such a way that they also look good without that tram-thing in front of it.
- in front of these you can lay an actual tramtrack and/or buslane on the same hightlevel.
- Finally you provide the tram-thing as a building that you place a level lower, but with overlapping tiles that go over the actual tramtrack and will connect to the main building of Sydney, looks roughly like this then:
Attachment:
Example317.png
Example317.png [ 144.72 KiB | Viewed 5275 times ]


Yeah, it may glitch, but that way you can get very close to the actual situation ;-)

Just wanted to share this idea, as I know you are contemplating the design of Sydney and this may be handy to keep in mind ;-)

Hope you get well soon!!


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 01:09 
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Improving a bit each day .. mornings I can do a bit without to much hassles, but later in day it hits again so I lay down again.

I got a few vacancies in Part 2 and plenty room with the Freight set so a few buffer stop designs could be added.

Could also make some object sets and put with the fake rail sets and AuzObjects_Rail.

Like your ideas with Sydney. Not a easy station to make because of the 2 levels.

This view shows main entrance and buildings along Platform 1.
Attachment:
Sydney-Central-Station-Aerial-View[1].jpg
Sydney-Central-Station-Aerial-View[1].jpg [ 58.52 KiB | Viewed 5275 times ]

Main Entrance is near the clock tower. The domed roof will be interesting to do .. I seen one of your Dutch buildings has the dome roof, but not as steep sided as what I need. Do you know of any dome buildings any one had made that I can experiment with?

Bottom right corner can see another lower level, this is where catering trucks deliver the food for trains and the parcel and mail pickup and delivery area.

I started doing the buildings that go along Platform 1 .. this where I up to at the moment.
Attachment:
Sydney Station Platform 1.png
Sydney Station Platform 1.png [ 7.23 KiB | Viewed 5275 times ]


One of left is street view. Where the paving ends half way along the building there is a low lever rest of length of building. Underneath the buildings is where all the catering trucks arrive with foods for the trains and station kiosks and was also access to the parcel and mail deliveries and pick up.

The building on right is platform view of same building. The awning posts and platform and edges are temporary to help guide me.

I hope to visit Sydney again in coming weeks to get some more photos. Hope to get some out side views of platform 1.

I should be doing the buffers for game, but keep jumping back and forwards with other ideas :)

Computers suppose to be multi functional .. but afraid I not. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 02:18 
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Could also make some object sets and put with the fake rail sets and AuzObjects_Rail.

O yeah, I totally forgot about those.... :oops: :oops:
Those will be excellent to place a couple of object-buffers into!
A tip, place the buffer at the beginning of a tile (so it will connect directly to the end of a track), as objects cant get a tracktype aware groundtile and wont get catenary... So just a buffer, no tracks (maybe just with some gravel beside it)
EDIT:
These I just did, looks ok to me ;-)
Attachment:
Example318.png
Example318.png [ 49.01 KiB | Viewed 5271 times ]


Quote:
The domed roof will be interesting to do

Do you mean the domed roof of the clocktower or the arched roof in front of the platforms?

Quote:
Bottom right corner can see another lower level, this is where catering trucks deliver the food for trains and the parcel and mail pickup and delivery area.

That lower level may be a tricky one.....
What might work is if you split that building up in two parts...
So, a part 3x1 (with that grey pavement) and another part 3x2 or maybe even 3x3 that has the rest of the building and then use the rest of the tiles to draw in a totally fake slope downwards and the lower-level delivery area.... So it is actually all on the same level, but just looks like it is going down...

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Computers suppose to be multi functional .. but afraid I not

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 03:23 
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These I just did, looks ok to me ;-)


If I put some buffers in object set maybe do a good variety of types so suit most countries.
Might also make some with a fake platform or a building along side. Might also be ok with a fake road behind the buffer.

Attachment:
Sydney-Central-Station-Aerial-View[1].png
Sydney-Central-Station-Aerial-View[1].png [ 242.75 KiB | Viewed 5271 times ]


I circles the dome in pink .. Hope to make it with 2x1 tiles so players can have it as long as they want. The blue along the middle of the dome is a skylight.

The dome on top of clock should be reasonable easier being small.

Quote:
That lower level may be a tricky one.....
What might work is if you split that building up in two parts...
So, a part 3x1 (with that grey pavement) and another part 3x2 or maybe even 3x3 that has the rest of the building and then use the rest of the tiles to draw in a totally fake slope downwards and the lower-level delivery area.... So it is actually all on the same level, but just looks like it is going down...


The part I circles in red .. see if I can make this area using non-track tiles and as you mention have a fake lower section where trucks deliver things.

Should for the fun do those buildings circled in blue on top of the awnings? I not a 100% sure what they was used for, but believe they are manned and they watched for approaching trains and could tell the Station Master by phone what was arriving and on what platform.

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 05:51 
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If I put some buffers in object set maybe do a good variety of types so suit most countries.
Might also make some with a fake platform or a building along side. Might also be ok with a fake road behind the buffer.

You get soooo many ideas, soooo fast ;-)
Start out with just a buffer and some grass, maybe later add versions with more eyecandy ;-)
But it is definitely something to put on the (already huuuuuuge) to-do list :twisted:

Quote:
I circles the dome in pink .. Hope to make it with 2x1 tiles so players can have it as long as they want. The blue along the middle of the dome is a skylight.

What about the arch of the normal OpenGFX stations?
Attachment:
Example319.png
Example319.png [ 12.64 KiB | Viewed 5269 times ]

I know the arch itself is not wide enough for 2x1 (looks 1,5x1 to me), but maybe by adding the skylight in the middle and a bit of awning at the end towards the tracks may do the trick...

Quote:
The part I circles in red .. see if I can make this area using non-track tiles and as you mention have a fake lower section where trucks deliver things.

Why would you fake an entire road, that could easily be "real" and usable??
I took a quick look with google earth & streetview and came up with this for a layout:
Attachment:
Example320.png
Example320.png [ 99.77 KiB | Viewed 5269 times ]


To be honest, I think you are focussing on a detail.... yes, a pretty looking detail that adds reality, but not important enough just yet.... There are bigger things that you may need to check out first, like will the main building of Sydney fit on a 1 tile wideness? (especially with that awning along the street)

Quote:
Should for the fun do those buildings circled in blue on top of the awnings?

I cant say no ;-)
But another thing on the to-do list :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 06:29 
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But it is definitely something to put on the (already huuuuuuge) to-do list :twisted:


It is getting huge isn't it :o I want to work on Part 3 with the platforms with stanchions and I want to work on Sydney station buildings and I want .. and want .. and difficult to stay just on the one subject to finish.

Quote:
What about the arch of the normal OpenGFX stations?


I went searching through Silverx50s forum see what buildings there are with curved roofs and found some. Didn't think about OpenGFX Stations .. they might be easier to work with.

Quote:
To be honest, I think you are focussing on a detail.... yes, a pretty looking detail that adds reality, but not important enough just yet.... There are bigger things that you may need to check out first, like will the main building of Sydney fit on a 1 tile wideness? (especially with that awning along the street)


They say great minds think a like .. not sure if we got great minds .. but .. I been looking at Google Earth too seeing same views you did, I then went all way around to see what other sections looked like.

That google search helped to redesign my mind. :mrgreen: When I did the buildings along platform 1, I widen these so fit on one tile wide. After the google search and your ideas, I should shrink them a bit so the bigger buildings can also be made to fit one tile with the awnings and pathways.


I will see what I can add to the to-do-list :P

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 06:38 
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P.S.

Can I add these to the to-do-list.
Attachment:
Whale by rail_01.png
Whale by rail_01.png [ 119.31 KiB | Viewed 5269 times ]

Attachment:
Whale by rail_02.png
Whale by rail_02.png [ 277.27 KiB | Viewed 5269 times ]

Could have a whale of a time :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 09:01 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 09:20 
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How will this do for the sandstone work for the Sydney Station larger buildings.


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 09:49 
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Too many very obvious patterns...
Try something like this:
Attachment:
Sandstone_Q65.png
Sandstone_Q65.png [ 14.29 KiB | Viewed 5267 times ]

Keep in mind that these stations are in 32bpp colors, so using noise-generators or other effects that create (very subtle) textures can be very helpfull. You dont have to stick to openttd palette colors (or any other indexed-colors for that matter).


I'm off to bed now, burned the midnight oil so that verion 0.4 of the Dutch Station Addition Set Part-2 could be released....


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 09:57 
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Sleep tight .. I'll have to have a look at your Dutch set ..

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2017, 01:58 
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Having a play around with your new Dutch Platform set and the Elevated tracks and those with Foundations. I like it. They are adding ideas to my to-do-list :mrgreen:

Some of the railway station between Sydney and Strathfield are on elevated lines and some of them are island platforms. The Island ones can show a subway entrance and brick walls along the foundation wall.

Can I have ago at this .. but will wait till I finish Part 2 and Part 3 of my sets. Maybe put them in the Fantasy set.


Cheers pal

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2017, 06:24 
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Having a fiddle with how big Sydney terminal need to be .. this what I come up with so far.
Attachment:
Sydney Terminal.png
Sydney Terminal.png [ 52.66 KiB | Viewed 5264 times ]


It just the upper level with out the tram section. The dome I used from one of your stations for now to work out the sizes I will need. I will eventually do boxes like here for all buildings I want to add and later start adding doors, windows, awnings and other bits and pieces.

Before I go much further with it, I'll go and finish some of the other things on the to-do-list such as finish off Part 2 and do some work to Part 3.

Also like to go back to Sydney and get pics of the buildings that are under the awnings and dome. where all the windows and doors are and shapes.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2017, 14:21 
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those with Foundations. I like it.

Uh oh....... :lol:
I have no problem ofcourse with explaining those in due time! :W
Quote:
Having a fiddle with how big Sydney terminal need to be .. this what I come up with so far.

That can really work, you have enough room left for the awnings at the streetside too!
And indeed, trying out sizes/shapes before adding details is also a very good thing to do.
It is also handy for when you want to draw the buildings for the other direction of the tracks, much easier to change the shadings then.
It may be handy to draw the detailing as a separate layer, also for when you need to change the shadings for the other direction of tracks.


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2017, 14:46 
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I have no problem ofcourse with explaining those in due time!


Thanks for that .. love to learn now, but best catch up with other things first .. other wise the things on top of list will never get done ;)

Quote:
It is also handy for when you want to draw the buildings for the other direction of the tracks, much easier to change the shadings then.
It may be handy to draw the detailing as a separate layer, also for when you need to change the shadings for the other direction of tracks.


I should have drawn boxes long time ago would have made a lot of station work easier. Before I decorate the Sydney buildings to much will put in all the bits and pieces first and all the platforms make sure they all line up properly .. once I have all buildings needed will start decorating.

Definitely like to do everything associated with the 15 terminal platforms, the other 8 like to do them too, but the lines go underground not long after they depart Sydney. Circular Quay Station be a interesting one to do. It above ground .. roads and buildings under it and a freeway road above it.

Quote:
Part 3 Awnings and Stanchions


* I redone the green awnings and started adding them to the sets. If like to have a look here Part 3.
* Stanchions 2 pixels closer to platform edge.
* The Island Platforms I removed the Stanchion that was not on the platforms.
* The Stanchion in all Catenary sets are 2 pixels wide, but looked a bit odd with the awnings and there support post only 1 pixel wide .. so I got idea from photo several sections back .. the stanchion above the awnings is wider then awning supports, so I done same thing :)
*Haven't done the platforms without awnings yet.

Almost over Flue so should be ok tomorrow to get back to normal and catch up on house work :twisted:

Cheers pal

EDITED: When first did this post was some glitches in Part 3, instead of going to bed like I should have, I decided to fix most of them.

Question :?: Can we change to cost for building the platforms in game?

Almost all Island Platforms can also be built using the Single sided platforms. Single sided cost $712,

Island cost $1164. Can they be changed so cost same? If so could do away with many of the Island platforms.


Attachments:
auzstations_3_v001.grf [543.85 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2017, 14:22 
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Can we change to cost for building the platforms in game?

I dont think so, there doesnt seem to be a property like that available for stations (unlike for example for objects, that does have a cost-multiplier property).
It seems that the game itself has some sort of cost-calculating system for stations (depending on size and direction and maybe also on some other properties like trains being able to enter the tile) that cannot be changed. Maybe that also has to do with the (automatic) costs of maintaining infrastucture, making it too complex to add a cost-multiplier property....


Quote:
Almost all Island Platforms can also be built using the Single sided platforms
could do away with many of the Island platforms

If you can get the exact same structure by building 2 single-sided platforms back to back, then indeed the island-version is obsolete.

Looking back to why I did include island-platforms where 2 single-sideds could be enough is because the developers of the original Dutch Station Set (that only has the "standard" OpenTTD-platforms) used a slightly darker texture for almost all of their middle-platforms (If you built them using drag&drop):
Attachment:
Example322.png
Example322.png [ 75.72 KiB | Viewed 5256 times ]

As you can see, the middle platforms are darker when built using drag&drop.
Not sure if this was intended or a bug that no-one ever noticed...
As initially my set was to be a simple addition to their set (just by converting original graphics into single-sided and island-style) I had to follow their drawingstyle. And thus the island-style versions are different than 2 single-sideds placed back to back.

In your case, you indeed dont have that "issue". Island-platforms that can also be created by placing 2 single-sideds back to back can be removed if you want....


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2017, 14:37 
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If you can get the exact same structure by building 2 single-sided platforms back to back, then indeed the island-version is obsolete.


Two ways to look at this .. could remove what Island Platforms I want and save on 1 ID, or could use side by side only for the outer platforms and keep the Island Platforms .. this will save 2 IDs.

Also save money in game as a Island is cheaper to build then using 2 single sided platforms
.

Another saving I could do .. the awnings with Walls .. I could make the Walls as a non-track tile that way one set will fit all the awnings and could make 2 colours .. the cream and a green .. they will both go with all awnings. This will save more IDs.

The more spare IDs I make the more we can add to the To-do-list :lol: :P

I'll have a look at those ideas for an awhile before I go bed.

Cheers pal

EDIT: My idea of keeping Islands not work as need the Single sided more. :)

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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2017, 15:48 
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Another saving I could do .. the awnings with Walls .. I could make the Walls as a non-track tile that way one set will fit all the awnings and could make 2 colours .. the cream and a green .. they will both go with all awnings. This will save more IDs.

That depends....
It depends on how many non-track surfaces you want with those walls...
- Flat grass with wall
- Flat concrete/gravel with wall
- sloped/mowed grass with wall
- Horses & wall
etc etc etc....
At least, it takes up space in your game that could be used for placing more interesting looking non-track tiles....


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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2017, 10:03 
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Been changing the post supports to the green awnings so I could remove the catenary that I used on the Islands.

Going to put copy of all 3 parts on other forum see if players like the changes.

Part 1: I removed all the Island Platforms that can be made with Single Sided Platforms .. this has given me 50 spare IDs. This means costing extra to make a Island Platform .. wonder if players care spending extra?

Changed the green awnings with new support posts.

Part 2: Replaced the buffers on all Platforms with similar design to what they use in Sydney.
Some Buffers I changed to 1x1 and 2x1 non-track tiles which saved a few IDs .. now have 44 spare IDs in this set.

Part 3: Changed support posts to green awnings. Removed all the Terminal Buffers as they are in Part 2.

What next? See if can finish Parts 1 and 2 so get them out the way and reduce the to-do-list.

Here all 3 grfs if like to see.


Attachments:
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 Post subject: Re: GarryG Does Stations
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2017, 10:38 
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Made a new Menu .. AusStations: Country Intermediate Platforms ASCI.

Putting small Intermediate Platforms in this menu. They be good for small towns and DMUs. You can not lengthen them .. they just 1 tile platforms.

So far have 4 .. called Hilldale, Booberoi, Conoble and Wards River. (Conoble was a staff station for Staff and Ticket working, but later made a Intermediate Station). Thinking of renaming one of them or make one more called Wait-A-While .. that is a true station name.
Attachment:
Country Intermediate Platforms.png
Country Intermediate Platforms.png [ 32.34 KiB | Viewed 5251 times ]


Been planting flowers on City Platforms .. should I put some on country platforms too. The blue seats are a bit bright, maybe I should make them green or red.
Attachment:
Flowers on Platforms.png
Flowers on Platforms.png [ 26.49 KiB | Viewed 5251 times ]


Here's Part 1 if like to have a look.

If I can wake myself at 6.30 in morning hope to go to Sydney and get more pics Of Sydney station.

Cheers pal

EDIT: Best not go Sydney tomorrow now .. I wait till next Tuesday .. been a shooting tonight at Sydney Station along Eddy Avenue .. one of the areas I wanted to get photos. I imagine it will have pretty blue and white ribbons stopping people interfering with the crime scene. So tomorrow I do some more platforms .. thinking to put white fences on end of the city platforms where the Station signs are.

Cheers again


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